Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

swiss · Joined: Oct 03 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Switzerland

this siam arisaka is in my collection, it seems that the carbine has been reworked or sporterized. the sling holder in the buttstock is copied from the m1 carbine. serial number 22917, kokura or koishikawa arsenal, probably 21st series. can anybody provide me with more information?

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Wow, two Siamese converted Arisaka rifles, you've done well. I don't know if this one has its own datasheet. Thanks for posting. Those are some nice rifles! The link below is to the datasheet for the siamese mauser (Type 46/47) and the copy of the Type 38 made for Siam (Type 66), it includes the siamese numbers and markings which may be of help until we hear from Frank Allan. Siamese Type 46/47/66 datasheet. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:16 pm Post subject:

Dear Swiss;

You certainly have been lucky in obtaining good examples of Thai weapons! This carbine HAS NOT BEEN SPORTERIZED.

Your carbine is a Type 91 Thai Police Carbine from the early production. These carbines were fabricated by the Royal Thai Arsenal in Bangkok in 1948. It is a long story, but in short, the Thais liked the U.S. M-1 carbine, but could not afford to buy more as it recovered from the trama of WWII. They did have many Thai Type 83 long rifles (Japanese Type 38s bartered to Thailand) as well as a few captured weapons. The arsenal rose to the occasion and modified somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,255 carbines. Initially they were for police use, but serial numbers over approximately 1,000 have slight differences as well as different breech top markings and are believed to have been army issue.

I wrote a short article on these in a recent issue of Banzai. If you need a copy let me know and I'll mail it to you.

All Thai Type 38-based weapons will be covered in a separate chapter in the upcoming Type 38 book.

Frank

P.S. - I need some good photos of one of these carbines. Can you take a couple of photos for me? I need a full length right side shot and mid-section shot of the left side from a slightly elevated position so that the markings can be seen. MANY thanks.
_________________
Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Frank, once again, thanks very much! Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject:

Another point. I tried to enlarge your breech top photograph to get a closer look at the Model number (91 above the police emblem) and the new Thai serial number that is stamped below the emblem, but immediately lost too much detail. I think the serail number is 675 (again in Thai characters) but can not be sure. You can probably obtain a conversion table pretty easily or you can send or post a close up of that area. I would like to know the serail number to add it to my list of known examples. The Thais did not use the left side receiver Japanese (Arabic numerals) serial number to record these weapons. They used the new Thai number on the breech. The slightly later Army version of this carbine removed the original serial number stamps completely.

Frank
_________________
Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

swiss · Joined: Oct 03 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Switzerland

thank you very much for your postings, very interesting. i can send you the pictures next week. arisaka rifles are not very common in switzerland, so i'm quite happy that i found these arms.

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject:

Dear Swiss;

Many Thai weapons were imported into Europe, Canada and Austrialia during a period from 1968 to the 1990s when importation of military weapons was not allowed in the US. We lost out on a lot of rare rifles, particularly those from Thailand. Count yourself as very lucky!

I sure would appreciate any photos that you can provide. Thanks in advance for your help.

Frank
_________________
Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

rampage · Joined: Feb 09 2006 Posts: 9 Location: California

swiss,

Nice examples; thanks for posting.

Frank,

I have police carbine #1139 and Type 46 rifle #480. Do you need information on those examples? I cannot recall if the data has been supplied to you.

Dan

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:41 am Post subject:

Dear Dan;

You have reported the Type 46 (thanks for using the correct designation as very few people do!).

I not have a record of your carbine. There is no real data sheet but perhaps you can answer the following:

Is the bolt handle bent?
Is there a shovel cut out in the stock under the bolt handle.
Is the breech top stamped with the Charkra varition with
multiple circle in the middle?

Many thanks for you interest.

Frank
_________________
Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

rampage · Joined: Feb 09 2006 Posts: 9 Location: California

Frank,

Yes: bent bolt handle
Yes: shovel cut in stock under bolt handle
Yes: concentric circles in charkra

The receiver and bolt have the same number (1139), and the stock has the M1 oiler cut with the oiler and sling installed.

Dan

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Dan, you get my email about TGE baby 5931? Trey
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Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

swiss · Joined: Oct 03 2006 Posts: 16 Location: Switzerland

other pictures with the thai characters. hope frank can read more about the serial number.

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject:

The resolution on the photo is simply too low to be able to enlarge the photo to see the last character. It is 62X. I just can not read the last character number. 4, 5 or 8 are all similar with small differences. Try sending the original photo to my e-mail address or do a pencil rubbing of the receiver. another alternative would be to photo it more from the right side of the top.

Frank
_________________
Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Frank, number is 625, if you have any sort of internet accelarator on, it will degrade the quality of the any pictures you view on the net or on your pc after download. I don't think it downloads the images at their full original resolution, it cheats, to save a little time. Trey
_________________
Subscribe to BANZAI!
Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:39 am Post subject:

Dear Trey;

Many thanks. Do I dare try to turn the accelerator off? If so, how do I do that???

Frank
_________________
Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225