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Inherited Japanese rifle
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keropian



Joined: Feb 02 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject: Inherited Japanese rifle Reply with quote

I inherited from my grandfather what I thought was a Mexican Mauser. After a bit of discussion with more knowledgeable people than myself, we came to the conclusion it was a Japanese T-38 rifle that was produced or exported to Japan from Mexico. The stock was replaced after my grandfather broke it clubbing a deer (maybe he should of used the other end)!

"[Republica Mexicana] 1913" is stamped on the top of rifle and there is another tiny symbol above it (poss. Japanese). The serial Number starts with an F.

The other slight difference is the bolt, which is curved rather than straight (like most of the t-38's). This led me to the T-97.

At this point I'm looking for any further information and help.

I am also wondering if the T-38 or T-97/99 ever had a bottom feed clip?

Here are images of my rifle: http://www.keropiansculpture.com/mexmauser.html

Thanks,

Mike K.
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2228
Location: Hayden, AL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: rifle Reply with quote

Mike, Welcome to the forum. Wow, what a rifle! That is indeed one of the Mexican contract Arisaka's. It was originally in Type 38 Carbine configuration and most likely 7mm Mauser Caliber. The bolt was originally straight, and had a small tang safety. Your bolt has been turned down and has a safety from an early long rifle. They should have the same numbers as on the receiver of the rifle. The Mexican Govt only received a partial shipment before defaulting on the contract, the rest are thought to have been sold to Russia or possibly some European countries.

The sheet metal on the trigger guard is more commonly seen on Arisakas that ended up in Europe and Russia. It was to keep the floor plate release from being engaged prematurely when a gloved finger was inserted in to the trigger guard. What numbers are on the bolt and parts that you can find?
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2228
Location: Hayden, AL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:26 pm    Post subject: update Reply with quote

Please download and fill out a Mexican Model 1913 ( Type 38 ) datasheet and send to Frank Allan, This would classify as a 'Hen's Tooth', it will be the third reported from the F range.....with only 9 carbines reported beforehand, that makes it very, very, interesting. If you get tired of it, let me know Wink Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!


Last edited by gwsiii on Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kablam



Joined: Apr 03 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aren't you supposed to ask to buy it before you tell him how rare it is? Wink

Cool rifle. I hope you keep it. Your scuptures are amazing! I'd offer to buy the gun too, but I'm saving up for a figure of Sgt. Saunders!

Mike
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keropian



Joined: Feb 02 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Re: update Reply with quote

Who is Frank Allen? I'm pretty new to all this, besides just finding out my grand dad's Mauser is a Japanese rifle. And where do I send the form, through the forum??
I'm assuming he collects this info, please explain.
Since it was my grandfathers I will likely keep it whether I can use it or not.

As for my sculpture work, thanks for the kind words. The Sgt. Saunders figure is available for $1200 + shipping. It's 30" tall and in polyester resin.
Maybe someone will trade a nice quality M-1 Garand for a cast sometime?

By the way my grandfather lived in South Portland. Maine most of his life. He likely got the rifle in the state.
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kablam



Joined: Apr 03 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I grew up in South Portland and live in the next town over. I can't say I know any Keropians, but if he lived here his whole life, I probably ran into him at some point. Small world...
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2228
Location: Hayden, AL

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:57 pm    Post subject: rifle Reply with quote

I don't blame you, I'd keep it too, I have a carbine (4th series) that my Grandad brought back after the war. While its nothing special collectable wise, its priceless to me.

Frank Allan wrote the book The Japanese Type 38 Arisaka and rifles in that family that was started by Harold 'Ogesan' Macy's research. Frank's address (mail and email) is at the bottom of the sheet.

In the collection of datasheets, we basically record the features of each rifle we come across, and from this we can follow production features and changes by serial range.

I miswrote earlier, there are two other 'F' series carbine reported, one is F1449 with no other data listed, meaning it was probably just word of mouth (someone saw it somewhere and wrote it down and passed it along) and the other is F106 (still in 6.5 Japanese caliber). There is only 1 Long rifle from the F series reported, it is F1879, but has bolt F1329 in it.
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kablam



Joined: Apr 03 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an unsporterized version, so you can see what it might have looked like:

http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/RiflesArisaka.html

It's the 3rd one down.

Has this one been entered into a data sheet?
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keropian



Joined: Feb 02 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The number is F 1288. I will look on the bolt and fill out the form.

Like was said above the bolt could be from a long rifle.

My grandfather's name was McLaughlin lived on Bowdoin rd S. Portland ME.

He died in the eighties. He was my mom's father. My grandfather wasn't someone you forgot.

Glad I found this site!

MK
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2228
Location: Hayden, AL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:07 am    Post subject: rifle Reply with quote

Thanks for your help, we'll all benefit from it in the long run! Let us know if you have any more questions. Trey
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Francis C. Allan



Joined: Oct 04 2006
Posts: 257
Location: 20 Courtney Pl., Palm Coast, FL 32137

PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject: Mexican Model 1913 Reply with quote

Dear Keropain;

Thank you VERY much for sharing the details of your very rare carbine. The information that you have provided is very helpful for those of us who study the history of the Type 38 Arisaka and its many variations. I truly would appreciate your filling out the form on your Model 1913 Mexican carbine.

Trey pointed out that the floor plate release retention device on the trigger guard is of interest. This may seem unusual to you, but even this little bit of information helps us fill in some historical gaps. The device was added by the Russians to prevent the unintentional operation of the floorplate release - usually caused by the trying to force a gloved finger into the relatively small trigger guard - which would then fall free of the weapon, along with the follower, follower spring and any cartridges in the magazine. Since this device was added by the Russians, we now know at least as early as the "F" series of 2,000 carbines that they never reached the Mexicans and were part of the Russian purchase of these weapons from the defaulted Mexican contract. That may not sound like much to you, but I assure you it is important and fascinating to us who are trying to fill in the historical blanks.

Your carbine has been "sporterized", which seriously decreases its value and interest, but it is most understandable as at the time your father obtained it they were very cheap and made easily converted hunting rifles. However, forward ahead 30-40 years to the present and it is a rare item. Luckily there are many of us who restore such rarities even those carbines with the modifications made to your example. New replacement stocks are available, missing parts can be found, bolt handles can be PROFESSIONALLY straightened and the metal finish restored to near its original finish. I am sure that we all strongly urge you to have this carbine restored. Those of us who visit this site can direct you to the experts in restoration. It would be well worth the effort both for historical and financial reasons.

Thanks again for sharing your treasure with us.

Frank Allan
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20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225
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keropian



Joined: Feb 02 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Restored Mexican contract Arisaka carbine Reply with quote

I just wanted to show the before and after restoration of my sporterized Mexican Arisaka Carbine 7mm. Also to give credit and thanks.
I especially wish to thank John for the fabulous work he did restoring the carbine to a more historical look. And Frank A. for his information on the history and providing a straight bolt.
Maybe now I know why grandpa saved this rifle for me.

Mike

http://www.keropiansculpture.com/history.html











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Francis C. Allan



Joined: Oct 04 2006
Posts: 257
Location: 20 Courtney Pl., Palm Coast, FL 32137

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting the before and after photos. I am glad that I was able to provide a little assistance.

A piece of history saved!!!!!!

Frank
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20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225
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kablam



Joined: Apr 03 2008
Posts: 36
Location: Maine

PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrat's. That is awsome.

Mike
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2228
Location: Hayden, AL

PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 7:13 am    Post subject: carbine Reply with quote

That's great! Glad we could help! Trey
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Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!
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