Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

My grandpa gave me a Japanese rifle he captured from a paratrooper in Dulag airstrip in 1944. He also has the lead chute with what appears tobe some blood on it. Looking at the data sheet. Its serial number is 3466 and has the tokyo stamp after that and two inspection stamps and its bolt number is 671. It has a intact Mum and the markings under the mum have the markings of a type 30. It has the 2mm circle on the rear receiver and a triangle on the receiver bridge. It has the triangle sights and a 95 on the bayonet lug. it has the early ladder sights. It has a 3 and 3 other Japanese symbols on the rear of the receiver where it bolts to the stock. I am trying to take a good picture of them Here is a bad drawing of what is on it looks like. The stock had a 177 painted on the stock. I will post pictures this weekend. I just am curuous about this rifle since it is a type 30 used so late in the war. any info would be appropriated by Grandpa isn't doing well and would like to give him the information because he was in the Army Air Corp and this was a very emotional time. Since this was the only time he was in combat. Thanks again

swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Here is a picture of the gun and location of the stamps

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Welcome to the forum, looks like a great rifle! Is the mum overstruck or disfigured at all? Any additional marks on the receiver above or below the mum?

The key to good photos is movement, the absolute lack of it, and good lighting. Try positioning the rifle and camera on something so that it can focus, until I got a tripod, I used books. I can't tell much from your drawing, looking forward to better pictures. Maybe someone else can chime in. Thanks for posting. Trey
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swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

the mum is no touched. Below the mum has the type 30 markings.

swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Here are some pictures of the gun. Like I said I wouldnt mind some info, what ever you guys can give to me. Like I said earlier My Grandpas not well and would just like to tell him info on it. It was a important time in his life. I really have alot of questions on the markings. I know most of them but the picture with the stamped 3 I cant find anything about. My Japanese friends said it looks like the last two are the Japanese numbers 3 and 4 that have been stamped out. The top one looks like a triangle under the three stamp marks. Maybe the number 3 and the stamp marks where done the same time. Maybe by the US when he brought it back. thanks for your help.

swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Here are some pictures of the gun. Like I said I wouldnt mind some info, what ever you guys can give to me. Like I said earlier My Grandpas not well and would just like to tell him info on it. It was a important time in his life. I really have alot of questions on the markings. I know most of them but the picture with the stamped 3 I cant find anything about. My Japanese friends said it looks like the last two are the Japanese numbers 3 and 4 that have been stamped out. The top one looks like a triangle under the three stamp marks. Maybe the number 3 and the stamp marks where done the same time. Maybe by the US when he brought it back. thanks for your help.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Very nice rifle, and interesting markings. Its a very early Type 30 Long Rifle. 6.5 Japanese Caliber, model of 1897. Over 550,000 rifles and 45,000 carbines produced. Most of these have overstruck mums indicating removal from active military use. This one does not. It also has the triangle stamped at the rear of the receiver that we think indicates it was deemed fit for active military use. So its sort of confusing.
The markings on the tang look like two arabic numbers above two Japanese numbers
3 ? with the ? cancelled
3 - Japanese number cancelled twice
4 - Japanese number cancelled once
How it got there, I don't know. I'm not up on what units were stationed where. I'd think it was a rifle that was pulled from storage, that had not been reissued to a school or veteran's organization, and re-issued.
the bayonet is a later Type 30 bayonet, of an era more in line with late Type 38 rifle production or early Type 99 rifle production. Maybe someone can drop in and add a little more to the discussion. A very interesting rifle to have still been in active service almost 50 years later! Thanks for posting! Trey
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swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Is it possible that the unit was stamped on the tang. I did some research and Dec. 6th 20 paratroopers from the 3rd Raiding Regiment and 84 from the 4th Raiding Regiment was suppose to be dropped on Dulag Airstrip. Others where dropped at the three in land airstrips. Which was a little know Operation WA There is conflicting if any landed. Some sources say they did and others say a few and some say none. But my Grandpa said this solider that the gun came from was at Dulag so I have to believe a few did get through. He was in a shooting match with this solider and that's how he got the gun. And it is a haunting memory that we just now was even told about. So the numbers stamped out could have been another unit from a different conflict like the war Japan had with Russia. The 3 on the tang and the fact that the 3rd Airborne Raiding Regiment was on planes heading for Dulag on Dec. 6th 1944 kind of points to a unit marking. What do you guys think?
Thanks

Francis C. Allan · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:36 am Post subject: Type 30

Very interesting and very early Type 30 Infantry Rifle. The triangle on the rear of the is believed to indicate that the weapon was captured, then inspected and put back into IJA service. The partially cancelled tang markings are really interesting. They tend to be British and the cancelling was probably done by the Japanese using a circular stamping tool.

Japan supplied a lot of Type 30s to England during WWI, who later sent most of them to Russia. Sooooo..... It looks like this one was later given to the Chinese by the Russians and then captured and re-issued by the Japanese. Wow. Quite a well-traveled rifle is this is actually what happened.

Frank
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Francis C. Allan · Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:39 am Post subject: More

In looking at the photos again, the mum is not cancelled which would have been done on a gun that the Japanese sent to England and the tang markings appear to be a mix of Arabic numbers and Japanese numbers before they were cancelled. This is quite a mystery gun and certainly interesting.

Frank
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gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Frank, thanks for the update. I was a bit vague about the triangle mark's use. I do not think the tang markings can be attributed literally to a specific unit and that it is likely just coincidence that they appear to match either unit. I have been wrong before though.
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swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Thanks guys. I just wanted to throw that out there and see if that was possible.

arisakadogs · Joined: Oct 05 2003 Posts: 191

On slings and other items that were originally leather (like scope cases) the triangle is often used to indicate the substituted material. Could this mark on the rifle indicate it was suitable for field use as a substitute?
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gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2228 Location: Hayden, AL

Here's an earlier post on a Type 38 with the SEI mark, Triangle and a 'punch' mark after the Barrel code...

SEI Marked Type 38 with Triangle Stamp forward of receiver.
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

swadle · Joined: Dec 01 2009 Posts: 15 Location: Minneapolis, MN

Thanks for every ones help with this on information, taking it apart, and cleaning it. We shot it this weekend and it shot wonderfully. It hadn't been shot since 1944 and it is over 110 years old. What a nice gun. It is full of symbols so I will probably post more pictures. Thanks Again everyone.