Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

[Craig]

I have just acquired a Type 38 in fine condition over Ebay.
The marking on the top of the breech was not the usual mum, but an unusual marking of three interlocking circles with some kind of four pointed character in the middle where the circles overlap one another.
I have not seen another like this.
Does anyone know what it means?

[gwsiii]

Craid, send me a photo, I'll post it, and we'll see what we can figure out. You can describe the markings to the left and right of the serial number, and we might can narrow it down. Series Markings Thanks for posting! Trey
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[Craig]

OK, I emailed a picture of the Breech marking.

[gwsiii]

What you've got is a T99 Long style Trainer, produced by Nippon Special Steel (MRoJ, honeycutt/anthony). Receiver picture is below. They are referred to as 99 Trainers as they most resemble 99 Long rifles and the recievers have single gas ports like the 99s.

Not uncommon, but not as plentiful as some. Trey
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[Craig]

Assuming that one of these is in good condition, approximately what would it be worth?

[gwsiii]

If proper un-numbered Dust Cover and short push in cleaning rod, anywhere from $100-$200, sometimes more, Trainers are a niche piece for the moment, Chip Goddard is working on a book on trainers that will bring much more information on them to light when It gets published. For now all we have to go on is the limited information in Military Rifles of Japan (MRoJ). I have two with the Nippon Special Steel markings, and Two Naval marked with Cherry Blossom/Anchor, and two with no markings. Parts will not necessarily swap even though they are all quite similar. Generally trainers run from $50-$125 with the nicer-more complete ones bringing a little more. You could build a nice collection of trainers for very little money. Trey
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[us13doolittle]

Here is some more info on Craig's gun. I took some more pictures of it with my digital camera. Well, here's some interesting things about what we've found. First, we still haven't found one number on it, except the "2" at the top of the floor plate. The bolt has no numbers on it. The "tang screw" (behind the bolt) does not unscrew from the top of the gun. It is one screw that runs through the entire stock from the back of the trigger guard, through the stock, and the end of the screw is flattened and smoothed and pokes through to the tang behind the boat. So one screw to do the job of two!

The piece of wood on the top of the barrel in front of the adjustable sight on the far end is held down by a metal band. But at the end of the piece where it meets the sight it is nailed down with two tiny picture frame size nails. We gently pried them out, being careful not to crack the wood.

There is no bayonet retaining spring or mechanism on this gun. It is simply a one piece end piece attached by three screws, just like the type 99. The magizine cover & spring works like the type 99, too, and I have just looked at the type 99 pictures for disassembly and the trigger screws work the same way--the one screw through the stock to remove the receiver!

We finally found two serial numbers, after I got the barrel and receiver out---2977 on both! Those are the only marks on the gun, besides the 2 on the plate in front of the trigger guard. Boy it would be amazing if this was the #2 prototype in a series of what became the type 99! Trainer? What is it? Is your verdict the same with this new info?---Doug & Craig
PS: Sending More Pics!!!

[us13doolittle]

What is the email address I should send the new pics to?

Thanks---Doug

dougconnolly@comcast.net

[gwsiii]

Your description of markings is consistant with these style trainers.
The Japanese had pretty intensive training for school age children. Some trainers are 7/8th scale and referred to as 'Childs Training rifles'. Most were produced by private contractors that could not meet the quality standards for production rifles. There are several variations of trainers. Your's, the Nippon Special Steel trainers are unique in actually having a receiver marking (most don't) and the lack of a serial number. They exhibit features of both T38 and T99 rifles, but due to the breech design (single gas port) and front band configuration they are termed 99 Long style trainers. They are smooth bore, and designed for training (blank or gallery) ammunition only. GIs firing trainers with military loads and the subsequent failure of the receivers is what we believe gave Japanese rifles the label 'dangerous to shoot'. Production military rifles are generally safe to shoot with proper ammunition, however, trainers are not. As with any firearm, have it checked by a qualified gunsmith before firing. Never, attempt to fire a training rifle. If you need anything else, please let me know.
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[us13doolittle]

Thanks for the information. This gun does have a rifled barrel and a pretty good bore. Did you get our pictures? It also has serial numbers under the barrel and under the breech. I will have it looked at. This is
also full size.

Thanks,

Doug

[gwsiii]

I got the pictures, pretty nice rifle. Double check the barrel, I don't believe it should be rifled, if it is, its almost certainly for gallery ammo only. I'm pretty certain it isn't safe to shoot. Trey
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[us13doolittle]

Hey Trey!

What do you think this Trainer is worth it it's present condition?
I was excited to get $25 back from the guy I bought it from to cover the FFL paperwork fee the dealer I used charged me. I decided to keep the gun--gosh darn it--I just got attached to the thing, and it's got such a neat history to it. I just couldn't bring myself to send it back for a refund!
I now have two bayonets for it, although they are not training bayonets, but really nice type 30 bayonets, one with the original leather frog!

Thanks For All the Help!

Doug

PS: I'm trying to run down a cleaning rod and dust cover for the bolt.

[gwsiii]

I'd guess around $125-$150, maybe more, The ones I've gotten were several years ago and were $100 and $125. They have their own collectibiliity. Trey
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[Guest]

[gwsiii]

These are called 99 long style trainers due to the resemblance to the 99 long rifle and the single gas port, like the 99 rifles.
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!