Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

[pumaonly]

Here is a piecture of a MUM I have an a type 44. There are 3 circles centred on the mum. Anyone know what it means?

[gwsiii]

Welcome to the forum! Beautiful finish on that rifle. The overstrike indicates it was pulled from active military service. I'd assume it's a non-series gun, are there any circles/zero preceeding the serial number? Frank should be along to comment further. Be sure to fill out a Type 44 Datasheet and send to him. Thanks for posting. Trey
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[gwsiii]

It appears to be the standard Tokyo arsenal logo overstamp, indicating removal from service.
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[Francis C. Allan]

As Lord Garnet indicates the finish is outstanding for a rifle withdrawn from active service. That makes me very curious. Can you tell us about the rifle? Maybe provide some more photos??

Some rifles withdrawn from service were sold to other countries and in certain cases never went into IJA service.

We can probably tell you more about the rifle is you show us more.

Frank
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Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

[arisakadogs]

My Tokyo also has it's mum cancelled by the Tokyo Arsenal mark. They kinda got mine off center a bit. There are no zeros in front of the S/N or any other unusual markings. It came with an original T-44 sling and the rods in the butt trap



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"A woman, a dog & and a walnut tree. The more ya beat em, the better they be" (From "The Red Bagde of Courage")

[Francis C. Allan]

This is a very interesting discussion. With Dogs' T-44 being made in approximately 1918, being in good condition, and having the cancelled mum in the same way, we certainly have a mystery. I am at a loss to figure out why. I just looked over the Tokyo T-44 spread sheets on pages 321-326 in "The Type 38 Arisaka" book and I note that there are a few reported with this mum treatment. I just can not figure out why.

Perhaps they were sales samples offered to another country, but never acted upon. No T-44s were ever reported to have been sold to Siam, nor were any sales samples located there, much less records indicating their receipt.

I was researching related topics for the book, I came across some references to a T-44 in a private French collection which was reputed to have typical British upper tang unit markings, but I was never able to locate it to confirm this and without a reliable source of information (I usually insisted on two references) I did not mention this in the book.

I guess this will be one of our unresolved mysteries. I hate those!

Frank
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Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

[gwsiii]

Ah, the plot thickens....Adogs, Frank, thanks for the updates....Maybe we can come across one of these with a history to narrow the search...
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[cwbrel]

I recently pick up a Type/Model 38 with a similar Mum. Mine is a mid-range Koishikawa. There is no symbol for a school marking or leading 0's. It is much the worse for wear and there are symbols on the butt. From the repairs, I assumed it was a Chinese capture, but since I don't know either Chinese or Japanese, I have no idea what the butt says.

[gwsiii]

Welcome to the forum. Look for an import mark on the barrel around the underside of the barrel at the cleaning rod as the condition and the patch is typical of Chinese imports. Its also possible the stock was replaced. All sorts of interesting theories, Frank will probably be along to comment before too long. Thanks for posting. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[cwbrel]

Thanks. It's an Oyster Bay import. The only time I've ever seen an import mark wrapped around the barrel instead of along the barrel (or receiver, etc.). I haven't had a chance to fully disassemble it. Picked it up for the unusual Mum. I'd really be surprised if the weren't a replacement stock given how rough it is (the quality compares to a late war 99). Since it isn't school marked, it does make you wonder who got it when it came out of service. The man I bought it from said that the accuracy was pretty good, based on his description, 1-2 MOA. Haven't tested it myself.
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Curtis

It's been referred to as an addiction. I can live with that.

[gwsiii]

Frank may be on vacation, he's usually pretty good about dropping in every couple days. Brands of that type (edited) are requently seen on Chinese imports. I have a Jinsen Type 38 that is in a Chinese stock and the brand on it translates to 'Peoples Militia'(edited). Interestingly enough, it is ground, and import marked. So it was likely ground to be souvenired out, and for whatever reason ended up with the Chinese for several years of hard service before being imported in the 80's. If these old war horses could talk....
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Francis C. Allan]

I have a gun show in Jacksonville this weekend. I'll try to dig into this late Sunday or Monday. I leave for JAG Show on Thursday and then on to a "vacation" with the in-laws for three weeks with no e-mail access while there.

Frank
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Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

[gwsiii]

Gosh, I must be getting old. Please be sure to fill out a Type 38 datasheet datasheet and send to Frank on it.
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[cwbrel]

Will get the datasheet done. I have several more Arisakas, 38s, 99s and trainers - nothing really special. Would it be helpful if I just do datasheets for all and send them to the respective folks?
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Curtis

It's been referred to as an addiction. I can live with that.

[gwsiii]

Yes, please do. Every little bit helps! Trey
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Subscribe to BANZAI!
Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!