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Siamese 45 Rifle

 
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riceone



Joined: Aug 22 2003
Posts: 86
Location: Mississippi Delta

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:38 pm    Post subject: Siamese 45 Rifle Reply with quote

I know what a 46 is but what is a Siamese 45? riceone
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2208
Location: Hayden, AL

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: siamese Reply with quote

Roy, the Type 45 (8 x 50R) cartridge is the original cartridge for the type 46 (siamese mauser) that was later converted to Type 66 (8 x 52R same as the contract Type 38 rifle copy) Caliber if the sight has been ground down. Good and confused? Trey

Now the Chinese made a Type 45 Rifle that is so marked.

1) Type 46 = Siamese Mauser originally chambered Type 45 Cartridge, if sight is ground down, its been converted to Type 66 (8 x 52R) Cartridge.
2) Type 47 is the carbine version of the Type 46 using the Type 66 Cartridge.
3) Contract Type 38 = Type 66 and Type 66 Cartridge (8 x 52R)
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riceone



Joined: Aug 22 2003
Posts: 86
Location: Mississippi Delta

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Siamese Mauser Reply with quote

Fellow on another board wanted to know about a 1903 Siamese 45 Mauser. I'll get him to look here. Thanks, Roy
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ketoujin



Joined: Aug 12 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The designation of "Type 46" refers to the last two digits of the year of adoption according to the Buddhist calender that Thailand used at the time. 1903 was rendered as year 2446 of the Buddhist Era which is counted from the purported birth of the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama in 543 BC.

The truth is a little confusing as the desgination system the Thais used at the time of the adoption and manufacture of the Siamese Mausers from 1903 to 1908 or so, was actually different from the Buddhist Era model numbers which was adopted by Thai ordnance after 1913 and retroactively applied to all small arms adopted before then. Initially, the rifles that were known as Type 46 and Type 47, for the carbines, were desginated as R.S. 121 and R.S. 123 respectively. The R.S. stood for Rattanakosinsok - which was an alternate name of the reigning Chakri dynasty which ruled - and still rules - Thailand. The dynasty began ruling Thailand in 1782. 1903 was the 121st year of the dynasty and 1905 the 123rd hence the designation.

1923, which was the year in which Thailand adopted the new 8X52mm cartridge and rechambered the Type 46 rifles for it, was rendered as year 2466 of the Buddhist Era so Siamese Mausers that are reconfigured for the new round - most of them that are around - are designated Type 46/66 rifles and carbines.

Best,
Gunnar
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: designation Reply with quote

Gunnar, thanks for the clarification, details like that really make my head hurt when I try and look them up and write them out. Trey
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Francis C. Allan



Joined: Oct 04 2006
Posts: 255
Location: 20 Courtney Pl., Palm Coast, FL 32137

PostPosted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gunner got this exactly right. This subject is one of most confusing within the history of firearms. That is primarily due to the Type 46's seldom being re-marked as Type 46s in subsequent overhauls. I am aware of only two rifles marked on the chamber tops "Type 46", along with the new multicircle & flaming blade army logo as you see later on the Type 66 rifles. Only the Type 47 carbines were regularly re-marked. They have the full designation of "Type 47/66" stamped on their chambers. The second number refers to the fact that it was re-chambered for the Type 66 cartridge dating from 1923.

A lot of confusion also exists between the Type 66 Long Rifle and the Type 46/66 Long Rifle (the Siamese Mausers full designation when it has been re-chambered for the Type 66 cartridge - 8/52R). My friend in Thailand explained that soldiers, being soldiers, often got lazy and when referring to the Siamese Mausers and simply would refer to them as Type 45 and Type 66 intending to point out which caliber the rifle was chambered for. That added confusion since a Type 66 Long Rifle also exists (a Type 38 variation).

One important point is that full length rifles were designated "Long Rifles" rather than "Infantry Rifles" as was the case with the Japanese. Just an interesting nomenclature difference. Naturally they had Short Rifles and Carbines as well.

I hope this helps explain some of the history of the confusion surrounding Siamese/Thai weapons.

Frank
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