Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

[Augie]

Hi,I am new here but I am on many of the other boards,need some help with identifying what I bought,usually I research first but this one seemed to be to good to pass up.It was sold to me a T38 Trainer but I am not so sure,overall shape is good compared to most Arisaka's in my neck of the woods,metal good and wood good,came with cleaning rod and sling..
Barrel is rifled and the rifling looks pretty good,Has Mum but looks like it has been defaced with circles all around the edges.
I understand that if it is a training rifle it should not be fired?Gave the guy 150.00 for it,seemed fair to me,first one for my collection
Any help you all can give me is appreciated.
Thanks,
Augie

[gwsiii]

Augie, welcome to the forum! Nice rifle! Your rifle was a standard issue Type 38 Long rifle, pulled from service to use for training, hence the 1 over X mark and the circles preceding the serial number, I think the 1/X mark is called a 'Bun' mark. Original serial number looks to be 800k, quite a few in upper 800k range and early 900k range [orignal message corrected for accuracy] have an anchor stamped above the knob of the pistol grip indicating Naval use. I think it would be ok to shoot, check your brass after test firing, if it looks ok, you should be fine. If you got the rifle with sling and cleaning rod for $150 you did well. That mum cancelation style is similar to the marking associated with the Type 38s surplused out/sold to Thailand, I'll get Frank to comment/clarify. Your stock looks like it may have been refinished, but a complete rifle rig for $150 is a good deal. If the stock is Navy marked, a better than excellent deal! Please fill out a type 38 datasheet and send to Frank Allan. He is collecting data on the 6.5 family (and others) for an upcoming book. I'll check the serial number on my 800k Naval marked rifle and post it later tonight. Thanks for posting, Trey Stancil
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Augie]

Trey,Thanks for the info and the welcome. It is in the 800k range but I can find no sign of an anchor.I am going to do a detail strip and will try to make note of all markings and see if assembly#'s match.I will fill out a data sheet,looks like fun.
I am pretty sure the stock has been refinished,the metal is in very good condition with no pitting that I can see and decent blue remaining.Rifling is strong with a good muzzle.Rifle appears to be fully functional including the safety working smoothly.
Would this type of training rifle have a different purpose than the ones with no rifling? For instance were these used for live fire training?
Thank you,
Augie

[Francis C. Allan]

Dear Augie;

Your Type 38 rifle is indeed interesting. The circles around the mum to cancel it were applied in the late 1930s up to about 1940. Usually you will see these rifles with the mum overstamped with the 4-stacked cannon ball of the Tokyo Artillery Arsenal (later the Tokyo Army Arsenal and the symbol was later used by Kokura) as you see on the left side of your receiver. I have seen very few rifles with this method of cancellation outside of a group of newly manufactured rifles that were part of a contract for T-38s that went to Thailand.

Please do send in a data sheet on this rifle. Its unusual markings need to be part of my study on this subject. Thanks in advance.

Frank
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Francis C. Allan
20Courtney Place
Palm Coast, FL 32137

(386) 445-4225

[gwsiii]

Yes, they could have been used for 'live fire' training. I wouldn't refer to it as a trainer at all, probably 'school marked' Type 38 would be more correct. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Augie]

Frank and Trey,thanks for the help so far,I stripped the rifle down today and was pleased to find that other than the bolt all metal parts have the assembly #458,the bolt is all matching to itself with the #053.
I could not find any #'s on the stock or charactors,the handguard does have 069 stamped inside.
Here are 2 more pictures of #'s on the bottom of receiver and a buttstock repair.
Frank I will fill out a data sheet and get it out to you.
Thanks,
Augie

[gwsiii]

Interesting repairs, most Japanese style repairs are 'football' shaped, I have one rifle with a 'butterfly' style patch (like yours) that doesn't appear to be correcting any sort of crack. I'll try and dig up a picture. Is your rifle import marked (any stamped letters) on the barrel area above where the cleaning rod tip is exposed? Trey
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Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[gwsiii]

Here are 2 examples of 'patches' found on one of my rifles, Tokyo Arsenal Type 38 long rifle serial# 946432:

I can see no reason for the butterfly patches in the image below, inside or outside on the stock. It is possible they are post war 'gringo' to cover up something, initals, screw holes, etc.... Hard to say. The 'butterfly':


The 'football':
This is the style patch I see most on Japanese rifle stocks. They are normally very well done and the finish is even over them. This indicates to me, that (1) the imperfections in the stock were noted prior to inital assembly and final finishing, and meticulously corrected before the rifle was assembled, or (2) the imperfections were noted in the 'refurbishing or reworking' of the rifles and the stocks were stripped, patches/filler applied, and the finish re-applied before reissuing.


Either way, I've seen the butterfly patches mostly on Type 30's and 38's, with the majority of those being import marked, and the football type patches on Type 30's, 38's, and 99's the majority not being import marked. Trey
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Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Augie]

Trey,no import marks anywhere that I can find.The gouge or crack in the stock is only on the one side,does not go all the way through.There was no duffle cut under the barrel band.The stock finish seems to be a heavy shellac or varnish.
I think the sling is original also,I need to try to look up information on Japanese slings.
Augie