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Windtalkers

 
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szeigler
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 24, 2003 11:21 pm    Post subject: Windtalkers Reply with quote

I wasn't sure which forum to place it on, but since I am primarily a rifle shooter I figured this was the place.

I finnally got around to watching Windtalkers last night. I am glad I did not spend the $$ seeing it at the theater. I thought overall it was a pretty lame script on a very interesting and important topic. I also realize I don't know squat about the battle to take Saipan. I did like seeing the mix of 38 rifles as well as early and late war 99s. Glad the Japanese soldiers were not using Springfields. I was also impress with the field pieces, and "knee mortars". The special effects were okay, but I kept thinking I was in the S. California hills one minute and the back woods of Kentucy the next. I did not get the Pacific Island feel. I much prefer Thin Red Line over Windtalkers. The movie also brought a couple of questions to mind.

How realistic were the Japanese defenses/trenches portrayed?

Why could Nicolas Cage's character speak fluent Japanese and nobody comment on it, and if they did I missed it.

The nighttime scenes of them Bivoc in tents is crazy. They were likely sleeping in foxholes and shooting anything that moved at night, but I guess that's Hollywood for you. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Oh, and my final gripe, when are they going to quit portraying the Marines (less Thin Red Line) as the only ones that fought the Japanese in the Pacific. The Army made over 80 amphibious landing in the Pacific. The also fought at Pelieu, Okinawa, if memory serves Siapan, plus many more. Truth in advertising I am in the Army.

Your thoughts?

Shannon
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The Outlaw Josey Whales



Joined: Aug 25 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 11:35 am    Post subject: Well.. Reply with quote

As a huge USMC fan who finds him self enlisting in the Army I do notice that the Army gets no play in the Pacific. Everytime the Marines landed it was usually a big deal and the majority of their landings where conducted at large heavily fortified and heavily defended islands, Gaudalcanal, Bouganville, Einewetok, Beito Tarawa, Guam, Saipan, Pelieu, Iwo Jima, Okinawa. Now in all fairness the Army shared he landings at any of these places. The Marines are VERY territorial about WW2 in the Pacific. General martial was very bitter about the Marines sucess in reality and in the press in World war 1 and perssonally saw to it that no Marines stepped foot in Europe. So the Marines make sure the deeds they perfomred aren't forgotten and they could care less what the Army thinks. Their was a big scandal on Saipan regarding the USMC and the US Army. The 4th and 2nd Marine Divisions landed on Siapan with the Army's 27th Div. The 27th Div progress was slower then the two Marine divisons and where slowing them down. Famous Marine General Holland "Howling mad" smith Releived Army General Ralph C. Smith of the 27th Divsions Command. This really ticked off the Army because Admiral's Turner and Spruance OK'd the dismissal. Then Army Lt. General Robert C. Richardson convened a board of investigataion about "the summary releif and displacment" of his friend General Smith. This was a problem because no one involved was under his command and he was under Nimitz command who didn't find out these goings on until after the fact. Then the Lt. Gen. Richardson said to Holland Smith during the proceedings "You and your commanders aren't well qaulified to lead large bodies of troops as general officers in the Army. We've had more experience in handling troops than you've had, and yet you dare to remove one of my generals! You Marines are nothing but a bunch of beach runners anyway. What do you know about land warfare anyway?". Holland Smith kept his cool (veryunusual for him) but Admirals Turner and Spruance where not happy about being told off by someone who wasn't even related to their operations! They kept the controversy going until 1948 and historian picke it up form their. So many instances like these just illustarte the bad blood between teh Army and USMC and I think their was more of it (at least bewteen the brass)during the war then any one let's on. So I think the Marines get more play because their viewed as an Elite force and their not about to share the spotlight with the Army. Also the Army's main campaign in the pacific was New Guniea. While that was a VERY HARD campaign and very impotant to our final victory is it little talked about compared to the Island hoping campaign. Brett
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mag



Joined: Aug 23 2003
Posts: 11
Location: tx

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trench attack was very dumb. With all the large caliber naval guns setting off shore, an above ground fixed target like a mile long trench line would have been destroyed in about 5 minutes. The main problem in that battle was the small groups of japanese hidden in every little cave or hole. Each stopping the advance every 100 yards untill they were cleaned out. In most of those battles the US guys did not even see a Japanese untill he fired at them. It was to the US's advantage to engage them in a large fixed fight as to overwelm them with naval gunfire and airpower. The japanese knew this so they kept disspersed and hidden. Most of the battles shown in the film made little sense, hollywood does not understand. My favorite was when the US guys walked into the minefield and the Japanese shot the mines to blow the guys up!! Yeah, it is much easier to see and hit a 1 inch mine detinator at 50 yards than to hit a person!! mag
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strangms



Joined: Aug 22 2003
Posts: 35
Location: Tennessee

PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shannon,
I also thought that the movie was pretty lame, I did like seeing all the equipment and weapons that were used. Cage kind of reminded me of John Wayne, doing all that stuff and not getting hurt, like you said Hollywood!

Of all the books that I have read, I don't recall any trenches being there, but I could also be wrong.
And I think they would be in foxholes and anything moving out there that could not be identify, would have been shot!!

Maybe it was just the though of a New movie about the war in the Pacific that made us all watch it.

Mark Steve
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The Outlaw Josey Whales



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2003 5:51 pm    Post subject: Come to think of it Reply with quote

Come to think of it I don't think The Japanese ever used basic trenches in their island fortifications. They where big on concelment, bunkers, and buried instalations. They where masters of usingthe terrain to their advantage. The Japanese Army was always a very offensive force, never being put really on the defensive in China. Bewteen Port Arthur in 1905 and Nomahan in 1937 the Japanese never really aced any foe with large amounts of artillery, cavalry, air power and mechanized forces. So considering they where based on the Prussian system of tatctis they adapted their defensives very well. The Movie was watchable but over dramtic and I dunno seemed sorta...not what Marines in 1944 Saipan would be like. My dad was really pissed about the big Souhern guy saying "Us and the Japanese might be friends some day" or whatever BS it was. I doubt anyone was wanting to be a friend of the Japanese with people jumping off of cliffs! The equipment was very nice and I liked that big naval gun the Japanese where using at the end. Brett
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smzeigler



Joined: Aug 22 2003
Posts: 34
Location: Northern Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2003 9:02 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks for the info.

I forgot about the minefield scene. What a hoot. Don't forget the Army was key in taking Okinawa as well as the Phillipines. And as much as the Marines hate it, the Americal really helped them on G'canal.

Shannon
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oopy38



Joined: Aug 27 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:23 pm    Post subject: Marines Get The Glory Reply with quote

My father-in-law was in the Army and faught in the Pacific. He says don't talk to him about Marines. When all his buddies were getting wounded or killed there were no Marines around. The only Marines he saw were the 's Marine Guards on board the ships taking him from one battle to another. I don't mean to discredit the Marines or any branch of the service, but historically, it does seem they get all the credit for winning in the Pacific.
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riceone



Joined: Aug 22 2003
Posts: 86
Location: Mississippi Delta

PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2003 8:37 pm    Post subject: Marine vs Army Reply with quote

In E B Sledge's book The Old Breed he gives credit to the Army as being just as good as the Marines in the island fighting.
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Earl



Joined: Sep 01 2003
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 12:58 pm    Post subject: Windtalkers Reply with quote

One of our own, Dan King was the technical advisor for that movie. Obviously being a Hollywood production and him being "only" the technical advisor he didn't have much say in how Hollywood projected things. He did however do a real good job on the technical aspects in the movie. That big Japanese Naval gun used in the final scenes actually WAS a Japanese Naval gun captured on Saipan.

Earl
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