Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

[Hoplophile]

It's been a while since I visited the site...

A friend asked me to identify something that looks pretty strange to me.........it's a rifle that has a Carcano action (but not the Manlicher magazine that uses a special en-bloc clip) The box mag has a release in the trigger guard like Arisaka's but the floorplate is not hinged. The buttstock is patterned after the type 38 and 99's which were made using two pieces of wood spliced lengthwise. It is rather squared-off along the bottom side, and not more rounded like the Japanese. The buttplate appears to be like other standard Japanese units I've seen. The front stock band with bayo lug looks like the ones on 1893 through 1896 Mausers, with the spring tension retainer underneath. The only writing on the rifle is the serial # on the barrel, left side in front of the receiver. I can't tell the caliber but it looks about 7MM (not 7.7 or 6.5). There are Asian letters on the right side of the buttstock that may originally have been white paint.

Maybe Trey has some info on this wierd item.
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(Update) I just miked the bore with my caliper and it's .264 (6.5MM), so that could be either the Japanese or Italian caliber.

[gwsiii]

Welcome back. Sounds like a Type I rifle, if you can post a picture that will confirm it. Here's a link to some previous information/posts with a little more information. Sounds like it has some kanji on the stock, which would make it a little more desirable. If you can post pictures of it, we'll see about translating it for you.

The accepted designation is, Type I (eye). There were produced at three Italian arsenals/locations, in runs of 10k each, initial 'no series' designation and then series' A-L. There is a rumored series M, but I haven't seen one. It is in 6.5 Japanese caliber, and the variations are in the stock length, some are shorter than others. The proper rods are a different length than Type 38 rods, and some rods are marked with a 'star' inspection mark. They are usually available in excellent condition, often found with Type 38 slings with kanji on them. They were to fulfill a Naval Contract as the Army arsenal's weapons, were, for the Army. That's off the top of my head. They are pretty plentiful, but prices are high at auction sometimes. You can get a really nice one in the $250 -$350 if you keep your eyes open, sometimes $150. No method of matching parts that I'm aware of. Hope that helps. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Hoplophile]

Wow. I knew you'd be able to help, but I didn't expect such a plethora of info! Great job Trey.

I hadn't posted for so long because I couldn't get my name to take on the site some time back, and being the computer dunce I am, I never bothered to check out why until this rifle came along.

Great to be back, and thanks loads for clearing-up this mystery for us. this is still a primo site!

H.

[Hoplophile]

I got thinking about this rifle again and wondered if you could clue me in any? Did the Navy paint characters on all the stocks, or would this rifle have been for some particular purpose? The bolt was made by Beretta (PB), and the rifle by Gardone (Ser# B8247), according to the info in those previous posts you reference. I guess they changed-out the bolt at some time or other, but was this common?

The sling's well worn and has faint white characters on the underside of it. the stock has been sawed in two at a point under the rear band. (I'm sure this was done by some military personnel processing authority when the serviceman wanted to bring it home. The rifle was probably disassembled and the stock cut so as to make it fit into a foot locker or seabag. I remember seeing a German G43 that was sawed in half through the buttstock for the same reason).

One of the posts referenced said that the rifles were made under contract in 1936. Would that mean all of the Type-I's?

[gwsiii]

Hard to say for sure about the kanji, but probably, at least someone Japanese . It's probably numbers, but might be more. Same with faint markings on sling, may be numbers.
Bolt is probably ok, but may have been swapped, I don't know much about these, there are long butts and short butts, and some in-between butts (lengths) as the Japanese as a whole did not need butt stocks the length that Europeans did apparently. Slings have welted edges (lines just inside edge) and no stitching. Some receivers are purplish indicating improper heat treating. Its been said some are very brittle. I don't know for sure. So don't necessarily quote me on any of this. The stock is 'barracks/duffle cut'. Pretty common on long rifles, not so much on carbines, short rifles and such. I think the contract may have been signed to take effect in that year, but it might have taken a while to fulfill the terms of the contract. If I've left anything out, remind me.

For registration it may not have been your name, could have been the verification to keep the porn bots and spammers from registering and posting. I have to use double verification and if you mistype 1, you have to completely start over at the top with userid and password again. If you experience trouble in the future, let me know, usually I'll just register someone if they are having trouble, then they can login and change their default password. Hope that helps. Trey
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Fill out a Japanese Rifle Datasheet.
I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Hoplophile]

Good info. The receiver looks OK as far as color. I've seen some guns with portions that are red before. Many of the 1917 Enfields we used to re-blue at the gun shop came out like that. Some were fine, others not so.

No problem on the registration thing. Thanks for the offer though Trey.