Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

Winterhawk · Joined: Jun 30 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Texas

I am trying to identify the marking below the arsenal stamp on my Type 30 Bayonet. It is original to my Type 99' rifle that I have owned for over 47 years. The bayonet appears to have been made at the Kokura arsenal? Any help would be appreciated. The steel is pitted some near the cross guard from salt water I suspect. http://vrcc.smugmug.com/photos/116962981-O.jpg

whitesharkseeker · Joined: Oct 13 2006 Posts: 16

I'm definately not an expert but do know that you are right. That symbol is Kokura Army Aresenal Do you know the history of the weapon?

-Eric

Winterhawk · Joined: Jun 30 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Texas

The bayonet is original to my Type 99" Series #2 Nagoya rifle. It was given to me when I was 8 yrs old by one of my great uncles on my mothers side. Both brothers were in the 27th Infantry Division. The rifle was battle claimed when taking Aslito Airfield on the Island of Saipan. The other brother was in the 1341st Combat Engineer Battalion there. The arsenal mark I can identify it is teh small mark below it that I'm trying to decipher.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

I think your bayonet was produced by Koishikawa (Tokyo) Arsenal, when the arsenal was shut down, production was moved to Kokura, who used the same arsenal symbol. That mark is unidentified I believe, but is recognized as an inspection mark found on early Tokyo bayonets. What is the serial number on your bayonet and where is it located? The earliest bayonets were numbered on the crossguard, then placement appears to have moved to the butt end of the pommel for a short time, then to the back of the tang, then back to the pommel. After serializing reached over 2 million (a lot of numbers for the butt of the pommel) they began using series marks and a 5 digit number, much like they did on the rifles. This is just what I've observed so if I'm out of line on any of the above, let me know. I'll try and rummage through my bayonets this weekend, and post some similar ones, along with serial numbers. Trey
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gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

Raymond indicates he's seen serial numbers up to almost 4 million on Tokyo bayonets without series marks. This would make sense, as the bayonets were made for the both the Type 30 and 38 rifles and they had probably produced that many bayonets by the time the orders came down to start using series marks. I made the reference to crossguard, pommel, tang sequence numbering due to my having a an early Tokyo bayonet with 4 digit number on the pommel and no tang or crossguard number. Johnson's, Japanese Bayonets indicates that the earliest versions of the Tokyo Type 30 bayonet "...had only an 'M' on the end of the pommel, sometimes accompanied by a low serial number on the pommel and/or a number on the crossguard...." later Tokyo bayonets were numbered on the tang, then the pommel. So I guess sequence is open to interpretation.
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Winterhawk · Joined: Jun 30 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Texas

The pommel is pretty pitted and the number is obscured. The best I can read is M or T 885 on the butt end. No numbers on the tang or cross guard. The blade is super sharp no rust the spring and release button were originally stuck, but some WD 40 and a small amount of penetrating oil freed everything up. The mark is hard to see in the picture, however it does not match anything I've compared it to so far on any of the sites?
Still Puzzeled.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

Is the scabbard numbered on where the crossguard would make contact? Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

Winterhawk · Joined: Jun 30 2006 Posts: 9 Location: Texas

The scabboard is not numbered. The metal is pitted badly in key areas almost like acid or salt ate away some of it . Makes it difficult to decipher. I'm afraid the butt end of the pommel is not in A 1 condition like others I've seen. The blade however is like new. The scabboard has a gold or brass like line that runs the entire length on one side but no numbering or other mfg symbols. The inspection mark or what ever it is next to the arsenal mark is unlike anything published I've seen thus far. Just trying to complete the facts about these treasured items.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

I have 3 that I found that mark on. Here are pictures of my 4 earliest bayonets, 3 of which have the mark. Notice the different styles of the Tokyo Arsenal mark and the shifting of the placement of our 'inspection mark in question'. While the center circle stays consistant at 3mm, the rest of the 'cannon balls' vary.

3433 numbers on tang, no numbers on pommel

6856 and 'M' numbered/marked on pommel

113231 numbers on tang, and pommel

994984 number on pommel

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gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

Got this from Edokko:

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

Quigley had a question about the 'Wa' mark from Chuck Lamb, he'd noticed it on an early Type 38 carbine. I checked my early ones, and found the mark on the back of the rear sight, up through about 18k. My two guns between 18k and 22k are Kokura reworks as best I can tell and have the normal lazy-flagged-t's (tse?) on the back of the rear sights. Is it possible that this mark is not an inspector's id per se, but indicated it passed inspection at Koishika-'Wa'? Trey
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Edokko · Joined: Feb 12 2007 Posts: 57

Trey, unfortunately that does not work, because the "wa" of Koishikawa is just a part of the single character word "kawa" and is a different Kanji character.
One of my early T-26 cleaning rods also has the "wa" mark, and I kind of recall one of my early T-38 cleaning rods had the "wa" mark too. I still think it's an inspection mark, perhaps not the inspector's himself's initial but like an inspection department initial mark.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

Oh well, that's what I get for thinking. The thought process started with the stock inspection marks on later 38s and 99s, you see 'Na' on Nagoyas, 'Ko' on Kokura, 'Ho' on Hoten/Mukden, 'Jin' on Jinsen, etc... and I wondered if that progressed from an earlier inspection standard.
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Edokko · Joined: Feb 12 2007 Posts: 57

Trey, in that regard, the Koishikawa made arms should be marked "To" for Tokyo.
Remember, that Koishikawa was just a name of the town within greater Tokyo that the main arsenal resided and the official name was not "Koishikawa Arsenal" but "Tokyo Artillery Arsenal".
Nagoya Arsenal, Kokura Arsenal, Hoten Arsenal and Jinsen Arsenal were all official arsenal names hence the use of each city name initial as some of the inspection marks, whereas "Koishikawa" is sort of like a nickname used by us collectors.