Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

[Kenneth R. Woolley III]

Hello everyone. I have just inherited a Japanese rifle and need help in identifying it. It is a real war relic and shows poor aging. I shoot blackpowder but am out of my depths with this. To start, it has mum intact, and the markings according to castle-thunder, place it as a Type 97 sniper rifle. It has rust all over the barrel and is missing the top piece of wood from bolt to the first ring on barrel. Scope mount is there, no scope. Arsenal markings is the circle with two rings inside, then a very small circle above this at the 1 o'clock. Next is serial number 1597. The number 597 is found on the bottom ring closest to the tip of the barrel. It has "aircraft sights" and a old dark leather strap. Wood stock has a few marks or characters on either side of sling ring on the butt. I have pained myself this last week trying to identify it. The reason i'm having trouble is that the bolt is not the "turned" down one on the pictures. It is straight and the safety is nicley carved like a mum with a little extended knob or lever. It is missing the cleaning rod and wire bipod. The markings again are the exact ones on this site(castle-Thunder) for T97 Nagoya. I can faintly see a series marking under the arsenal and possibly another next to it. Firing pin works has split stock, dark wood, bolt plum knob has the same little circle that is at the 1 o clock of the arsenal, like a teardrop, only a very small circle. I have enjoyed learning a lot about Japanese rifles, any help with what I supplied would be appreciated. I could try and post photos in alittle bit. Thanks Guys! [/b]
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Kenny W

[gwsiii]

Kenneth, welcome to the forum. Sounds like you have a Nagoya Type 97 sniper rifle (1937) chambered for the 6.5 Japanese round, but a standard Type 38 bolt, and missing the handguard, which is not a major problem in itself. Your rifle would have used a 2.5 power scope. I'm guessing from your comment about the rear sight that it is a peep sight, not an aircraft sight (peep sight with fold out side wings). If you'll post pictures, we'll be able to tell you a little more about it. I don't know of anyone with a sniper bolt for sale, but, we do have access to someone that can convert a standard Type 38 bolt to proper sniper configuration.

Looking forward to the pictures, we'll be better able to ascertain condition and what you might be missing.

For the rust, spray down a couple times a day with WD-40, after a day or so of 'soaking', spray and lightly remove the rust with 0000-steel or nickel wool. Several light cleanings work much better than anything else. Don't do anything to the wood other than spray down with WD-40 and wipe off with a soft rag, this will remove surface dirt, without messing up the remaining finish on the wood. Take before and after pictures, and you'll be really surprised. Thanks for posting. Trey Stancil
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Kenneth R. Woolley III]

Thanks Trey. The back sight is a peep. Looks like an admirals hat or mantle clock. It has a flip up aircraft sight, and that has a peep sight the base when flipped up, kind of like a "tang" sight on old muzzleloaders. I'm trying to post pictures, I can get them on my computer,but then can I import them to this page? I'm curious as to the meaning of the serial number, and small markings at the 1 o'clock above the arsenal and characters on the wood? Maybe even a value of this rifle as described? If it is not worth that much I think I'll try to get it in firing shape. I could not locate a barrel letter like B or S, rust in the way. I'll get those pictures. This to me is like a detective case, quite fun.
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Kenny W

[gwsiii]

Kenneth, it looks like the host that I use for uploading photos is experiencing some problems, (very slow once picture selected).

Click on the 'Add Image to post' link below the window you type in when replying to a post.

In the Window that pops up click on 'browse'

locate the picture you want to upload and click 'open' from that window
(it is currently very slow to update the link 1-2 minutes in the add image to post window)

when your link to the photo shows up between 'Choose image file' and left of the 'browse' button (the the right of 'Choose image file'
click 'Upload it'

when its through, the code for the link to the photo will be embedded in your message.

Once that is there, you can hit 'preview' to see your message with the picture, or hit 'submit' to complete the post. Remember if you use 'preview' you have to remember to hit 'submit' to actually update your post.

The serial number 1597 indicates that it is an early rifle, the small mark next to the arsenal mark is probably 'Na' for 'Nagoya' these can be badly stamped, but it sort of looks like an open zippo lighter, the stock marks are inspection marks and should be 'N1'=Na and 'N2'=Ri? (I think) on the 2nd page of the Type 99 Datasheet for reference. Value is hard to estimate without being able to handle it and look it over. If average condition with improper bolt, but complete, $500 - $1000, with upper end being for better condition. If matching and mummed, double that or more. It should be very fun to shoot. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Kenneth R. Woolley III]

This might give you guys a better idea of what I have. I like the detective work and would like to know anything about this rifle. Maybe these can help.





















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Kenny W

[Kenneth R. Woolley III]

If somebody can get to the bottom of what rifle I have, down to the Nth degree(it seems that is how far down they can trace it), I would appreciate it. Also, Should I clean it and get it to fire? Is the patina and rust more important? I would like to shoot it or get it in the hands of a collector who likes it for what it is. How much would it take to get the wood hand guard that goes on top the second band? I will need a scope if it is the t97 and of course the bolt handle. Unless for some oddball reason, the one on it was suppose to be there. These are all questions I have because I think i'm really enjoying these rifles. Underhammers and old black powder benchrest/target rifles are my thing to collect, so this is a new field. This seems like a good group of guys. I can take more pictures if anyone needs better or more specific angles/areas. Thanks.

Kenny
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Kenny W

[gwsiii]

Kenny, it is a Nagoya Arsenal produced, Type 97 sniper rifle from the 1st series, its an early one.
Its pretty rough right now, but should clean up to be presentable.
got this from Vic Soto, collector of information on snipers,

[Kenneth R. Woolley III]

Thanks Trey, I think I may "give it a go". These rifles are easy to fall in love with. I'll fill out a data sheet for the T97. I think I'll clean it real well and get the rifle to fire. Is the method with light steel wool and WD 40 still the best way? Next, i'll takle the handguard issue. Can this be taken off any Nagoya factory T38? Where should I look? I will need proper screws that go into the band in the middle of the rifle. If I can make it that far, i'll try and find a Nagoya bolt and have it bent, unless I can find a T97 bolt(good luck). The scope is a bit out of my league unless I get lucky. According to the post above this rifle wasn't issued a particular one, that may help me find one easier. I think then its an issue of small items like cleaning rod, bolt cover, and wire bi-pod. I think I will need advice and help throughout, so I'll probally be posting questions a lot. Should I decide to not pursue it, what would be a fair estimate for the rifle if I get the handguard, take care of the rust issues and get it to fire? I would look to you and this group of collectors first if that is what I decided. You guys are top notch!
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Kenny W

[gwsiii]

Kenny,
Don Schlickman can provide reproduction parts: monopod assembly, convert standard bolt to proper sniper configuration, and cleaning rod. All quality reproductions, much better than you can find anywhere else.

Don Voigt is likely to have the screws and a handguard. He also may have a nagoya bolt body to send to Don Schlickman to convert, he may also have dust covers, if not, I have a few. You'll want to wait and see how it cleans up before getting a dustcover, nothing looks worse than a shiny new dustcover on a well used rifle.

A handguard off of a Nagoya Type 38 should work just fine. If you can't find a properly 'colored' handguard, you might contact John Wilshire about refinishing one to match the color of your rifle.

All three of the above gentlemen's contact information is located in the
restoration section.

For Cleaning, I use 0000 steel wool, WD-40 and The Big .45 Metal Cleaner.
It works great, but nicks the hell out of your finger tips. Soak the rifle with WD-40 for a day or so, several soaking applications, spray the stock and rear band liberally where removing it and be carefull not to scratch the stock, carefully disassemble (screws are soft, so be very careful) and work on the small pieces (tangs, buttplate, bolt and parts) first. This will get you familiar with how the metal 'feels' and looks as you are cleaning it. Several light cleaning are always better than one heavy one. Some also use brass brushes. Its a very 'messy' process. After a point, you'll be able to tell by feel, when the surface rust is off of an area. Periodically, rinse with WD-40, and wipe off, and do over. The object is to remove all the rust, but leave what finish may be left underneath, without scratching it or polishing it bright. The Big .45 Metal Cleaner (Nickel wool) is great for this. If you use a buffing wheel, you run the risk of over heating the metal, and discoloring the surface. So hand cleaning is best.

If the rifle came from a family member, I wouldn't get rid of it. With that said, if cleaned up properly with handguard, probably $500-$700 depending on how much pitting. I saw a very nice one a little while back w/mismatch bolt for around $1000 I think. Most of us prefer to do our own cleaning, that way, we save a little money, and clean it the way we like. There are horror stories out there, a few threads below, a rare-siamese carbine that would have cleaned up pretty well, got dipped and stripped, and went from a $500+ rifle in original condition to a $250 refinished rifle because of the improper restoration techniques. Feel free to ask any questions you may have. Good Luck, Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

[Kenneth R. Woolley III]

Thanks, again Trey. I will be starting the WD 40 treatment on Sunday. In a week or two I'll be able to judge how it is coming and then contact those fellows about the restoration parts. I havn't even looked down the barrel to check the grooves, Is this the same procedure...using the WD 40 and a rod that will fit down the bore? Thanks for the help and i'll keep you posted.

Kenny
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Kenny W

[gwsiii]

I'd just spray the bore from time to time, and then standard bore cleaning techniques. The rifling won't look sharp, it looks 'rounded' by design, metford style rifling. Good Luck. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!