Japanese Militaria at Castle-Thunder.com

Garandshtr · Joined: Dec 27 2007 Posts: 109 Location: Palm Harbor, FL

Trey, I think I've read that you're interested in concentric circle rifles. I saw an auction for one today, at auction arms. Pretty pricey right now, but I thought you might like a peek anyway. This is a very late Type 99, with plum shaped bolt handle and fixed rear sight.

Check it out here:
http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=9017789

Then maybe you can tell us what these are again?
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Still trying to learn what I can, mainly about the Type 99 and Type 38. I have more curiosity than time, and more time than money.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

The CC (concentric circle/double circle) rifles are pretty interesting. As indicated in the description they are generally attributed to use by the Kempei Tai and that use has recently expanded to include the organizations listed (other military police, and guards at prisons, embassies, and other civil installations).

(what follows are my thoughts thrown together in 15 minutes after thinking on the subject many times over the years and are complete suppositions, so take them with a grain of salt.)

Edokko · Joined: Feb 12 2007 Posts: 57

Trey, the Kempeitai "was" army, they were the MP of the IJA and had strong powers, let alone have the authority to use IJA equipment, especially during Tojo era who was Kempei himself in his Manchuria days, but since the Kempei being army themselves there was absolutely no reason whatsoever for them being issued anything different from the normal mummed infantry rifle. Additionally, the theory of civil government use is also not feasible, since the civil goverment did not have entities that could carry and use military arms. Only the military (army, navy and vet association under them who trained civilians) and the ministry of education (who covered normal schools and youth schools) had such authority.
Only logical use of these special lots of some late T38 and in general T-99 CC rifles I believe were for school and veterans association use, previously marked with the 文 mark or splayed M mark. Frank and I believe the CC is just an evolution of the double Os on the front of the serial numbers on the 文 rifles. There is a short overlap of 文 marked and also CC marked T-38 rifles but they will quickly evolve to just the CC mark. The older T-30 CC marks seems to me to be cancellation marks that just happened to be similar to the later CCs.

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

Edokko, appreciate the corrections, I'll try and dream up something better next time. Trey
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!

type-14 · Joined: May 02 2006 Posts: 206 Location: Florida Panhandle

Now that the auction is over, selling price was $819, was that a good price?

gwsiii · Joined: Aug 21 2003 Posts: 2240 Location: Hayden, AL

I think that was a little bit of a steal. Numbers wise, less than 2K last ditch CCs, even though CC rifle survival rate is pretty high. Still a very uncommon rifle, I couldn't tell from the pictures about the stock condition, it didn't look sanded, but the color, at least on my monitor, looked browner that it ought to have been. I think owner will be happy with it. There are less CCs than sniper rifles or paratroopers combined (after that statement, look out for the super secret CC sniper paratrooper rifles coming soon to a show or auction near you) and both snipers and paratroopers bring crazy money. So after rambling on, yes that was a good price in my opinion.
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!