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Type 'I' info

 
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Garandshtr



Joined: Dec 27 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:27 pm    Post subject: Type 'I' info Reply with quote
Hello again!
Back after a few months of looking productive! Very Happy

Anyway, I still have the Japanese rifle bug, and I've gotten an interest in the Carcano/Arisaka Type 1. First, what is the correct terminology?
Second, can nice and affordable examples be found? If so, where?

Not sure why this rifle struck my fancy, but it seems interesting. Very much a melding of two rifles.

What can anyone tell me?

thanks,
Mark

Last edited by Garandshtr on Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2240
Location: Hayden, AL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:22 pm    Post subject: Type I Reply with quote
Mark, The accepted designation is, Type I (eye). There were produced at three Italian arsenals/locations, in runs of 10k each, initial 'no series' designation and then series' A-L. There is a rumored series M, but I haven't seen one. It is in 6.5 Japanese caliber, and the variations are in the stock length, some are shorter than others. The proper rods are a different length than Type 38 rods, and some rods are marked with a 'star' inspection mark. They are usually available in excellent condition, often found with Type 38 slings with kanji on them. They were to fulfull a Naval Contract as the Army arsenal's weapons, were, for the Army. That's off the top of my head. Maybe someone else will chime in. They are pretty plentiful, but prices are high at auction sometimes. You can get a really nice one in the $250 -$350 if you keep your eyes open, sometimes $150. No method of matching parts. Trey
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Last edited by gwsiii on Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2240
Location: Hayden, AL
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:03 pm    Post subject: link Reply with quote
Here is a link to a previous discussion.

Here is a little bit more information. The really great post on gunboards has moved since they updated a while back, I can't find any of the old links. But it was a lengthy post on reported numbers and miscellaneous information.
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I didn't pay to much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it a little bit too soon!
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Garandshtr



Joined: Dec 27 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:02 pm    Post subject: I !!! Reply with quote
Jeepers! TIme for a trip to the eye doctor! (No pun intended.) I've always thought it was a 1. Type 38, Type 99, Type 1...sort of fit. I'll try to keep it straight. Many thanks Trey!
I've seen a couple of recent auctions that seemed pretty nice examples. I'm pretty sure I need at least one. Is there anyone who collects info on this type?

thanks again,
Mark
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Garandshtr



Joined: Dec 27 2007
Posts: 109
Location: Palm Harbor, FL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:00 am    Post subject: still looking Reply with quote
Well, I guess there's always more questions.
What sort of markings are these Type 'I' rifles supposed to have? I'm not getting any complete info from other sources.
Are the Type 30 bayonets supposed to fit these as well?

TIA
Mark
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
Posts: 2240
Location: Hayden, AL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:36 am    Post subject: Type I Reply with quote
Pretty much no markings, a few inspection marks related to manufacturer, but usually no other markings. These are surprisingly 'plain' when it comes to markings in comparison to other military rifles. The Type 30 bayonet is the proper bayonet. No numbered parts that I'm aware of other than the receiver. Trey
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Garandshtr



Joined: Dec 27 2007
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Location: Palm Harbor, FL
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:45 am    Post subject: no markings! Reply with quote
Very interesting. Well, that's what I've seen and been told, there just aren't marked parts. At least it should make for a nice finish, if it survives.
As always, thanks for your help Trey! You're a treasure!

p.s. I have another Type 99 on the way, so I'll probably have something for you soon there, too!

Mark
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ketoujin



Joined: Aug 12 2005
Posts: 9
Location: Oregon
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: I !!! Reply with quote
Garandshtr wrote:
Jeepers! TIme for a trip to the eye doctor! (No pun intended.) I've always thought it was a 1. Type 38, Type 99, Type 1...sort of fit. I'll try to keep it straight. Many thanks Trey!
I've seen a couple of recent auctions that seemed pretty nice examples. I'm pretty sure I need at least one. Is there anyone who collects info on this type?

thanks again,
Mark


Mark,
The Type I designation works this way: the word for "Italy" in Japanese is "Itaria" and the first letter is 'I' so Type I is short for "Type Italian" or "I Shiki" in Japanese with 'Shiki' being their word for Type or Model.
Even aircraft given to Japan by Italy under the terms of the Anti-Comintern Pact were designated as "Type I Bombers" by the Japanese.
Since the letter 'I' is pronounced in Japanese like we would pronounce the single letter 'E' - we should actually be pronouncing it as "Type Eee". Hope this makes sense.

According to the Japanese weapons nomenclature system, from roughly 1925 or so, Japanese weapons and ordnance were classified by their model year which was the year of their adoption according to the 'Kigen' calender system which began with the year 660BC, the date of the mythical founding of Japan. According to this system then, 1925 would have been year 2585, 1930 would be 2590, and 1939 would be 2599. The last two digits of the Kigen years were used as Type or model numbers. 1940 was the 2600th year under this system and 1941 was year 2601. After 1940 only the last digit of the Kigen year was used as a weapons model number. So, to answer your question there were weapons designated as Type 1s. However, since the Type I was aquired from foreign suppliers it had a designation of the first letter of the country of origin according to the Japanese word for that country. If the Type I had been developed domestically in Japan it would have been designated the Type 96 after 1936 - the year in which the Type I's were built.

Best,
Gunnar

Best,
Gunnar
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gwsiii



Joined: Aug 21 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:29 pm    Post subject: Type I Reply with quote
Thanks, Gunnar, even I (no pun intended) can understand that! Thank you! Trey
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